1 Topic by ScrapheapBlues (edited by ScrapheapBlues 2010-08-08 13:24:56)

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 7

Topic: Buying a PA

Hey all,

Maybe not the most orthodox question, but considering the general level of tech-savvyness on this forum i figure it's the best place to ask!

I help run my university's "Campus Bands" society and we've found ourselves needing to buy a PA for one of our practice rooms. Vocal's had been amp run previously, and as everyone knows that's pretty awful! At least with our amps tongue

So, I could do with some advice as to what kinda PA we'll need. The practice room is fairly small, maybe 5 by 5 meters, probably less. It has 50-100 or so watt amps and a drumkit, so the PA needs to be able to contend. It'd be used for vocals and the occasional acoustic instrument i suppose! That said, it wouldn't be needed for gigging, just practices.

As a student society, our budget is fairly low, in the 200-400 pound range. We need a whole PA setup, so mixer the works, but nothing needs to be of exceptional quality.

So yeah, any suggestions?

Thanks for any help y'all can give!

  • From: Farmington, CT
  • Registered: 2010-04-23
  • Posts: 64

Re: Buying a PA

For a mixer go Mackie all the way. It's not the cheapest option, but in my opinion it's the best option by far. I'm sure you can pick up a used one relatively cheap.

"Another song, another mile." - The Black Crowes

JPrzech's Website

  • Registered: 2010-05-21
  • Posts: 121

Re: Buying a PA

My band have a Behringer 24ch mixer, and for practise only, that's more than enough:-)

Keep rocking!


André

  • From: N.Wales, UK
  • Registered: 2009-03-06
  • Posts: 2,183

Re: Buying a PA

Mackie all the way.

Behringer will blow up in your face within six months.

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 7

Re: Buying a PA

Hmm, maybe my lack of vocabulary messed up what I was trying to ask tongue

The Mixer aint all that important. Neither is the make, reeeeally, as it's just for a small practice room. The MAIN issue is what Wattage we'll need!

Cheers though guys big_smile

  • jim m
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  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
  • Posts: 3,429

Re: Buying a PA

200 watts would be OK out of a powered mixer if you use efficient speakers.
JBL has 12" wedges that can be laid on the floor or pole mounted and are about $275 each. I have had 2 pair for about five years and they can scream I have had a 6 channel Behringger powered mixer for that same time and never had a problem with it.

http://okcsoundstage.com/index.php/rehearsal-hall/ Scroll down to the small room photo.

jim m's Website

  • Registered: 2010-07-23
  • Posts: 7

Re: Buying a PA

Sounds good. Can I pick your collective brains re:

http://www.soundsavers.com/shop/audio-e … ystem.html

This. Seems to fulfill our needs pretty well and the price is right where we want to be paying. That said, it could be turd for a million hidden reasons, who knows! For an extra 20 quid there's a 480W system too, although we wouldn't want to get something TOO loud!

Thanks again

  • jim m
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  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
  • Posts: 3,429

Re: Buying a PA

Wattage does not equate to loudness. It relates to how much dynamic headroom you have before distortion.

Loudness relates to speaker efficiency. 1 watt at one meter db. SPL  (sound pressure level) A very efficient speaker might produce 100 db an ineffient speaker 90 db. that is a difference equating to twice the perceived volume level. To make those same speakers twice as loud again or 10 db you need to have ten times the power or 10 watts. To make those same speakers 10 db louder you need ten times the power or 100 watts.  3 db is a percieved loudness level that is discernable. So 200 watts will give you 3 db's louder  123 db out of an effient speaker like the JBL. Verses 113 db from an enefficient speaker. From there you double the power to 400 watts to get 3 more db SPL or sound pressure level. Where you get into problem is an under powered system that clips when overdriven. PA's are constantly being over driven unless there is limiting devices used.

I guess what I'm saying is wattage doesn't have a whole lot to do with loudness. Wattage has more to do with how clean or distorted the volume is. That is why a low wattage amp is dessirable when you want the amp to breakup at low volume. Also why Joe likes 100 watt amps for a cleaner tone at high voulume.

So opt for more power for a cleaner loud that will not damage the speakers if driven to the point of clipping. Better speakers have some kind of circuit protection that keeps you from blowing them when you do so.

jim m's Website

  • Registered: 2009-01-01
  • Posts: 665

Re: Buying a PA

DaveWammbarro wrote:

Behringer will blow up in your face within six months.

I thought about Behringer too but many people told me the same thing. I would stay away from those.

I have an Allen & Heath ZED-22FX mixer http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/zed/zed-22FX.asp (a 12FX http://www.allen-heath.com/zed/zed-12FX.asp will do just as well depending on how many channels you'll need) and 2 Mackie Thump TH-15A active speakers http://www.mackie.com/products/th-15a/
I was on a budget too and this PA is more than enough for rehearsals. Quite sufficient for live gigs in clubs and even for small open air events. The speakers have a bit of a hiss on lower volumes but what the heck.

  • jim m
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  • From: Okie City, OK
  • Registered: 2006-04-24
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Re: Buying a PA

So here is my recommendation. Check the speakers effiecency. Measured 1 watt 1 meter SPL over 90db Check their impedance. 8 ohms or 4 ohms. Most speaker cabs are 8 ohms. Pick power based on RMS rating. You want at least 200 watts RMS 8 ohms 400 watts would give you 3 db of dynamic headroom.

jim m's Website

  • Registered: 2008-03-07
  • Posts: 508

Re: Buying a PA

Look out for a peavey powered mixer thats a mixer and amp combined and some peavey hysis2,3,or 4  speakers, good sounding budget gear that will last and easy to find cheap second hand   big_smile

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink
  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Buying a PA

I have a yamaha 312 (300 watt) head/mixer and it's not really loud enough. I only plug in two passive speakers and a powered monitor. I'd go bigger.

I'm not a big fan of Yamaha as a brand, but they are a gold standard in PA stuff. Peavey is good working man's stuff, and Behringer is economy price/quality. Never had problems with any of them.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
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Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • From: York, PA
  • Registered: 2010-08-27
  • Posts: 1,749

Re: Buying a PA

JBL makes good speakers for the money.  2 JRX 125's will handle a full band without the need for subs if you don't want them.  Yeah stay away from the behringer.  With JBL you can still have money left over for a good used or new MACKIE board. -Seth