CSNY movie or "should music be political" ? (Page 2 of 3)

IMO there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.  It there is a lyrical allusion that is occasional, subtle, tasteful, and designed to provoke thought, I'm generally okay with it (such as the message on Crosby Loggin's "March on America" or the somewhat recent Robert Cray song).  But when it launches into vote for my candidate or party and takes on the attitude that I'm right and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, evil, or both, then I'm turned off and will likely look elsewhere for entertainment.  If an artist decides that they would rather take the risk of offending half their audience and potentially turning them off, then it is their right.  And it is my right not to support them.

The thing I don't get is the conceit of so many creative people that because they can act or play an instrument that people would care what they think politically.  It isn't their area of expertise.  If I want pointed political commentary I can go to Bill Maher, Rush Limbaugh, or one of the political shouting match shows for my daily dose of confirmation bias.  I don't however want to hear those guys sing or act.

I listen to music for enjoyment.  Any artist that wants to mess with that runs the risk of losing my support and affection.  And a special no-no is the ranting on a captive audience at a concert.

yes and no.  if you are going to spend three minutes writing a turd like green days american idiot, then no.  if you are going to do it right, like dylan's masters of war, youngs ohio, ccr's fortunate son, hell even war pigs.  more recently if you have heard james mcmurtry's we can't it here or really any of his political material is good.  i don't like it if that is all political and i don't like preachy but it can be good.  music can be whatever it wants but if it is written for **## then it is hard to take the statement seriously be it about love or politics or anything done with feeling

Jane,
What you have to know is that I am a big CSN fan and a HUGE Neil Young fan. I have had debates with my daughter in fact (who is a big Dylan fan), that I believe that Neil Young is a better song writer than Mr. Dylan (an argument that I believe whole heartedly, but have yet to win - please let's not go off on that tangent, though). So you have some background and know where I'm coming from.
I went to see CSN & Y to have a good time and to enjoy their music, music that I really love. Most of that I got. But I also got....a friggin political commercial. IMO wrong! wrong! wrong! This has nothing to do with the message, but CSN & Y using that venue to distribute it.
Here's a link (I haven't seen the movie): http://www.csny.com/photos/24
36 pictures, be patient and look at them all. Put a bit of a damper on a great show for me.
I didn't need that. I don't need to be preached to. I follow politics. I know the issues and I didn't need CSN & Y forcing this on me while I'm out trying to escape a bit from every day life and have a good time.

Wow, Thanks for the heads up. I would be taking in a CSN and god know Y show this summer.

I have to admit that I really disagree whole-heartedly with the "shut up and sing" demand (wasn´t that even the title of the Dixie Chicks movie?!). I don´t get why it should be an artist´s goal to simply entertain people. That´s not what I call an "artist".
I think an arist can only be a true artist when he doesn´t aim to entertain, but to speak from his soul. And if speaking from his soul means to put a poltical message in a song, then he has to do that. Artists have always critizisied the society they´re living in and have brought grievances to the "light of day", because they sensed that something is going wrong there. Artists can put your daily opinions and believes in another perspective by showing you another aspect or side of a topic - or holding up a mirror for you to look in. There have always been artits who do that kind of job (not only in music of course, maybe even more in literature) and there are others who don´t.
I´m very happy that Joe doesn´t for example - he´s just so into his music that he doesn´t want to "ruin" the beauty of it with sending out political messages to his audience. That just suits Joe as an artist.
But I think there have to be both types of artists - those who show you the true beauty of music (or language or whatever) and tell you a story that makes you FEEL (like Crosby said) and those who use that beauty of the art to make you THINK about what´s going on or about what´s going wrong.
These are just two different types of art - and if you go to a concert of one of the "think" types of artists, then you have to expect to get to hear things that you probably don´t want to hear. I would expect two very different experiences when going to a Neil Young show or going to a Joe show for example.
Young commented on the people who left the show screaming and swearing with something like "oh well, at least they´re thinking at all".

Unfortunately I didn´t see the CSN&Y tour itself - I only saw the movie. But what I saw in the movie was so different from "the attitude that I'm right and anyone who disagrees is either stupid, evil, or both" (sorry for stealing your quote, dude! I agree with you on the candidates thing...) ...
Neil Young explained why they put up these huge video screens behind them and showed scenes from the war or pictures of dead soldiers there - he just thought that the media wouldn´t show you something like this that directly. I just discussed the topic with my dad again and we both remembered one particular scene in the movie: Neil Young showing a photo of one of those big planes where they bring back home the wounded soldiers and even have the possibilty to operate them right on the plane. The article below the picture talked about how very fast the technological progress has developed through the war. And Neal Young just looked at the poor guys lying there and asked why nobody talked about them?
I didn´t feel like CSN&Y were all political in the way "Vote for my candidate or die" (because THAT´S really stupid and "forcing the own opinion on the audience"!), but like "look at what WAR does to people". Not only "what our current President does to people" ... I think that´s something else than just preaching about your favourite party in front of a huge audience.

The most horrible and touching scene was when they showed the mum of a dead soldier who had just lost the person she had loved most in her life because of the war and had to look at all those idots who started "booing" and swearing when the pictures of the dead soldiers were shown (her son was among them). Afterwards she said something like "how can they STILL think that everything is alright the way it is after looking in these faces?".
That´s what I meant with artists showing you another perspective than what you see or hear in the media every day. Maybe that´s also a reason for naming the tour "Freedom of Speech" tour - not only the freedom to talk about your favourite party, but the freedom of talking about what´s going wrong in our society.

Eva

I have no desire to pass a law banning political speech by artists.  My complaint is more about taste and heavy-handedness.  It seems to me that today, at least in America, so much political speech is both sides making straw-man caricatures of opposing views and then unfairly demonizing their opponents (see my earlier references to Bill Maher and Rush Limbaugh).  There is little attempt to humanize one's political opponents and fairly represent their views and give them credit for being intelligent people with good motives, though perhaps a bit misguided.  Maybe it's different in Europe.   

Another thing with the history of social and political commentary by artists.  With instant, interactive mass communication ordinary people are not without an ability to be aware of the latest societal developments and the full spectrum of political views.  2 or 3 centuries ago it was different. 

And then there is the matter that there are so few Voltaires and that so many come off simply as partisan political hacks who couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag, and yet these are the people preaching to the rest of us.  To me this is a matter of an overestimation of their cognitive abilities and an underestimation of that of the audience.  In short, it is insulting, especially if there is no open debate with the ability for a response.  And at that point we've turned a concert into a political science class and what's really the point of that?

Whatever side you fall on, the great thing about being free is that someone can stand up and shout their opinions at the top of their lungs and nobody is going to come and take them away.
The next time CSN & Y wants to put on a FREE show, then I think they will have earned the right to espouse whatever viewpoints (political or otherwise) that they desire. The people that attend can then make a decision to leave or not to leave. When you've paid good money to see a show, that is an expensive option.
I will leave you with this thought: What if CSN & Y was spouting about a political view that was abhorrent to the normal person.
What if they came out preaching Nazi propaganda, or some similar nonsense. Free speech cuts both ways, and that is the only way it will work. I just don't want to pay to hear it.

Yes Jeff, as I said.....does it move you? Of course art and politics mix....always have, always will. Yep, a songwriter has the right to express their thoughts.....isn't that what music is basically about? Not the froth....I mean the real stuff.

Geoff