Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

Clapton has a higher nut on his strats for slide... but I'm unsure how much higher. I'm sure it's not ridiculous like the stewmac solution.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

Clapton has a higher nut on his strats for slide... but I'm unsure how much higher. I'm sure it's not ridiculous like the stewmac solution.

Oh cool that's good to know, I kinda never hear anyone making adjustments to nut height, everything seems to be done at the bridge end, I had a new nut put on my resonator, but its a little too high...any chords you try and play on the 1st fret sound whacky, I think they went a little too high. I wasnt really sure if anyone did that sort of thing to a strat.

Cheers

Brett

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

I think there IS a too high. Talented players can play slide with normal action... but for us beginners, it's easier with a slightly higher action. IMO

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

22 (edited by ZeyerGTR 2010-05-22 20:13:32)

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

I think there IS a too high. Talented players can play slide with normal action... but for us beginners, it's easier with a slightly higher action. IMO

Agreed.  I don't change my action for slide playing, but I don't generally like it super-low anyways.  Once you get a feel for it you can play pretty clean with "normal" action.  You don't need to press the slide against the string that much.  I use (Dunlop) chrome slides, too, which are a little smaller and easier to control than some of the big glass or porcelain slides.  If you're using bigger, heavier slides you might want the action a little higher. 

I'm a beginner at slide so I don't know if it's my technique or whether a new nut is the way to go, what do the pro's do?

I wouldn't worry about putting on a new nut unless there's a problem.  If you want the action a little bit higher you can adjust that as-needed.   Just my 2c speaking as a "non-pro." smile

I just started using Nut Sauce a few months ago and it made a huge difference in tuning stability on my LP.  I'd recommend it to anyone.

Never tried the wraparound trick - I'm definitely giving that a shot next time I change strings.

Great thread - thanks for posting Joe (and everyone else)!

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

ZeyerGTR wrote:
NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

I think there IS a too high. Talented players can play slide with normal action... but for us beginners, it's easier with a slightly higher action. IMO

Agreed.  I don't change my action for slide playing, but I don't generally like it super-low anyways.  Once you get a feel for it you can play pretty clean with "normal" action.  You don't need to press the slide against the string that much.  I use (Dunlop) chrome slides, too, which are a little smaller and easier to control than some of the big glass or porcelain slides.  If you're using bigger, heavier slides you might want the action a little higher. 

I'm a beginner at slide so I don't know if it's my technique or whether a new nut is the way to go, what do the pro's do?

I wouldn't worry about putting on a new nut unless there's a problem.  If you want the action a little bit higher you can adjust that as-needed.   Just my 2c speaking as a "non-pro." smile

I just started using Nut Sauce a few months ago and it made a huge difference in tuning stability on my LP.  I'd recommend it to anyone.

Never tried the wraparound trick - I'm definitely giving that a shot next time I change strings.

Great thread - thanks for posting Joe (and everyone else)!

Thanks for the info ZeyerGTR, yeah I have a coiriciden bottle replica and some pretty heavy bigheart slides, probably be worth it just to try it  tongue

bluesdog88

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

The wrap around method totally works.  I am used to playing 11's and 12's on my strat but put 11's on my Schecter Solo 6 using the wraparound method.  Made them feel like 9's to me.  I've since then gone up to 12's on my Schecter and, with the wraparound method, get a HUGE tone but am still able to play comfortably.  Those 12's are like telephone cables too!

Guitar: Schecter Solo 6 Limited (p90's), Fender Strat
Amp: Blues Deluxe Reissue, Fender Twin Reverb
Effects:  Morley Bad Horsie 2 Wah --> Korg Pitchblack --> BBE Soul Vibe -->  Ethos TLE--> Jetter GS3 --> MXR Carbon Copy

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

I started using 0.12 on my les paul.


i find that amazing. i've developed a lot of strenght.

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

I don't understand how the top wrap changes the tension of the strings.  You have to have a certain tension in order to achieve a certain pitch.  That doesn't change.   I like the top wrap feel for a place to wrest my picking hand but I don't see how it makes your strings feel lighter.....Anybody have any insight that I'm not seeing.

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

As xcorporate said, the fact that top-wrapping lowers string tension doesn't really make sense to me. I know people say that it *DOES*, but I'm curious as to *HOW*. If anybody has any insight that I'm missing this morning (Before my coffee tongue), I'd be happy to hear it smile Cheers!

Guitars - Cheapo "Jay Turser"
A beautiful Blue guitar made by "Agile"
2009 Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White, Maple Wood Fretboard
1994 Blue Gibson Les Paul Studio Lite, Black-Chrome Hardware

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

I was able to find a website that tells how this works. Scroll down to the bottom of the page: http://ashbass.com/AshBassGuitar/stoptailwrap.html

Here's the relevant part:

Yes, the fact is...... it is 100% true a specific string requires a specific tension for a specific note.

Now....the saddle is normally the end of the strings length,
it is the fixed point that terminates the strings length, correct?

Yes, correct...until you bend or press on the string.

Now all bets are off, why?

Because the saddles are not "locking" saddles(like, say a locking nut) the string length behind the saddle now comes into play.

Don't believe me? Fret a note, keep it fretted...now pluck it's string length behind the saddle...NOW....while bending that fretted note continue to pluck its string length behind the saddle.

What happens? The pitch of the string length behind the saddle raises as you bend the fretted note.

What does that tell you?

That once strings are bent or even pressed down to fret(which essentially is a tiny micro bend) the string length behind the saddles now comes into play here and is now part of the strings overall bending tension equation.

Now with this in mind, consider....

1. If the tension of the string length behind the saddle is high already due to the stoptail being set down tight to the body causing a sharp angle on that short length of string, what is going to happen when you bend(or fret)a note? It's going to "access" that higher behind the saddle tension and feel stiff when you bend it.

2. Conversely, if the stoptail is raised up the tension on that short length of string is now low, so now when you bend a note the "access" to that lower behind the saddle tension causes the bend to feel less stiff.


Of course you don't get something for nothing here.

A higher stoptail will make fretting feel easier and bends easier, but....the distance needed to bend to a specific pitch will now be greater.

Make sense?

This is one reason why different guitar designs feel different, and react to bending notes differently.Tuned to concert pitch different guitars with the same string set, same scale length, will have the same tension at concert pitch. Right? Right. Now, each may feel like there's a different tension when fretted or bending though, why? The string length that is on each end, each terminating point of the string, be it a nut or saddle varies on different guitar designs. Headstock pitch, tuner spacing and height on the peghead as well as string trees, stop tail or trapeze, or frequensator tailpieces, through body stringing, or a Fender Strat or Tele type bridge...all of these have different behind the strings terminating point string length and tensions.

Guitars - Cheapo "Jay Turser"
A beautiful Blue guitar made by "Agile"
2009 Fender American Standard Stratocaster - Olympic White, Maple Wood Fretboard
1994 Blue Gibson Les Paul Studio Lite, Black-Chrome Hardware

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

brandonherges wrote:

I was able to find a website that tells how this works. Scroll down to the bottom of the page: http://ashbass.com/AshBassGuitar/stoptailwrap.html

IMHO
This is only true with a Nashville bridge I believe. Slash, for example doesn't top wrap his strings, but his tailpiece is tight to the body. I didn't like having my tailpiece in my '72 LP custom's tailpiece raised, so my guitar tech told me to ditch the Nashville bridge for an ABR-1 bridge. You'll notice it's not as wide as the Nashville bridge. You can tighten the tailpiece and the stings will clear the edge of the bridge without touching.

On a Nashville bridge with the tailpiece tight, the strings would touch the bridge's corner before the saddle piece.... not so on an ABR-1. I guess what I'm saying is that topwrapping is functionally unnecessary if you have an ABR-1 bridge. I still do it though. I didn't start until like 2007, and I had no problems from '94-'06 with it as it was.

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

Regarding the Nut sauce thing. Years ago I had a graphite nut installed on my 63 strat. Never a tweak or hangup again. It's been on at least 15 years, no problems.

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

I put that sauce on my nuts every time I can!

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

That might not have come across the way I meant it...

Re: Joe's string height on Les-Pauls

wharris wrote:

That might not have come across the way I meant it...


ha

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