• Registered: 2012-03-10
  • Posts: 265

Re: Asking for help with tone

macg1 wrote:

I am sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but if you guys think that from the Budda to the Marshall phases, and from the Marshalls and their versions and with the inclusion of Two Rocks/VanWeeldens/Dumbles, and now the Twin rig, that JB "sounds the same" then you are not really listening. Vast gain structure differences through the years, and a good deal of EQ differences. Let us not forget the different guitars. Does it all sound good? Yes, of course, it is a great player with great gear, hard to sound bad. What doesn't change is JB's playing style and phrasing which does come from his fingers/brain, mood, and soul (if you believe in such things). If gear was not part of the equation, then a Crate amp with a Lotus LP would do the trick.

I think we should really focus on the part of the original question that we can address which is the gear, this is after all the gear portion of the forum, instead of discouraging tone chasing. I went through a long time of gear experimentation before arriving where I am, which is happy and with what I think is my own tone. My opinion is that you have all that you need to get close to the sound. I would suggest adding EV12L speakers to your amps and use the recto verb for some Fenderish tones. Boost the mids/low mids a bit for some Dumblesque flavors You can supplement it with the DC-5 for a nice stereo spread (though I am not really sure of what the DC5 sounds like). Run all the wet effects through effects loops. I would try putting chorus on one side and delay and reverbs on the other, BUT a full dry/wet system may work. I would run your TS into the DLS MKII (try both modes, i prefer the SuperBass in mine though JB did use Superleads). I do that with great results. It was my understanding that JB used to leave the TS on all the time.

I would do some serious tweaking and listening. Pick a song of JB's that you really love and spend the time playing and listening, and if you can recording what you play and listen. Perceived audio and recorded audio can be VASTLY different. Happy tone chasing!

I also never said he sounded the same. He sounds like Joe. His sound has run the gamut, as I have said. Not discouraging anyone from tone chasing, but come on. You don't know what a DC5 sounds like, but are giving advice to the OP on them? Adding speakers? Ughh. OP, good luck, and I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. I'm just being realistic. It's in the ear of the beholder though, so maybe you can get close with what you have by experimenting with settings. I wouldn't go changing speakers any time soon though.

20 Reply by jbailes (edited by jbailes 2015-10-25 12:47:51)

  • Registered: 2014-01-11
  • Posts: 37

Re: Asking for help with tone

No I wont be changing anything about the amps. My DC-5 is quite heavy in the mids. It has both a 3 band eq and a 5 band graphic, but there's an inherent mid presence that's always there. On the other hand, my rectoverb can get its mids dialed out quite well if so desired.
I failed to mention that I also have a Peavey 5150+ 112 combo (guess I have an affinity for 6l6 combos). But I'll keep trying these suggestions. I really appreciate them.

  • Registered: 2015-04-01
  • Posts: 9

Re: Asking for help with tone

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but joe said his old "grab and go" rig was a les paul and a Mesa Mark I, and he said he loved it, so you may be able to get close with the mesas.  if you search "Mesa" into this forum, you may be able to find the post.

Strat (EJ wiring) & Tele > JH Fuzz face > JH1D wah >  TS808 > TU3 > DSL50(1936 cab) > DL4 (in the loop)
  • macg1
  • BONAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: St. Petersburg, FL
  • Registered: 2010-01-21
  • Posts: 1,019

Re: Asking for help with tone

jbyrd1 wrote:
macg1 wrote:

I am sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but if you guys think that from the Budda to the Marshall phases, and from the Marshalls and their versions and with the inclusion of Two Rocks/VanWeeldens/Dumbles, and now the Twin rig, that JB "sounds the same" then you are not really listening. Vast gain structure differences through the years, and a good deal of EQ differences. Let us not forget the different guitars. Does it all sound good? Yes, of course, it is a great player with great gear, hard to sound bad. What doesn't change is JB's playing style and phrasing which does come from his fingers/brain, mood, and soul (if you believe in such things). If gear was not part of the equation, then a Crate amp with a Lotus LP would do the trick.

I think we should really focus on the part of the original question that we can address which is the gear, this is after all the gear portion of the forum, instead of discouraging tone chasing. I went through a long time of gear experimentation before arriving where I am, which is happy and with what I think is my own tone. My opinion is that you have all that you need to get close to the sound. I would suggest adding EV12L speakers to your amps and use the recto verb for some Fenderish tones. Boost the mids/low mids a bit for some Dumblesque flavors You can supplement it with the DC-5 for a nice stereo spread (though I am not really sure of what the DC5 sounds like). Run all the wet effects through effects loops. I would try putting chorus on one side and delay and reverbs on the other, BUT a full dry/wet system may work. I would run your TS into the DLS MKII (try both modes, i prefer the SuperBass in mine though JB did use Superleads). I do that with great results. It was my understanding that JB used to leave the TS on all the time.

I would do some serious tweaking and listening. Pick a song of JB's that you really love and spend the time playing and listening, and if you can recording what you play and listen. Perceived audio and recorded audio can be VASTLY different. Happy tone chasing!

I also never said he sounded the same. He sounds like Joe. His sound has run the gamut, as I have said. Not discouraging anyone from tone chasing, but come on. You don't know what a DC5 sounds like, but are giving advice to the OP on them? Adding speakers? Ughh. OP, good luck, and I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. I'm just being realistic. It's in the ear of the beholder though, so maybe you can get close with what you have by experimenting with settings. I wouldn't go changing speakers any time soon though.

Look, been on this forum for a long time and I gave 100% good advice that was neither discouraging nor suggested selling everything and buying top of the line gear like they would on TGP. I merely pointed out some key things that COULD be done and also admitted my lack of information instead of acting like a know-it-all demagogue. I stand by my advice. Not sure why people here are getting butt-hurt about tone discussions and suggestions. I do feel that tone is a composite of gear and the player, and it of course starts with the player. Anyone would be ignorant to say otherwise, but the gear is also part of it and to not admit it is equally as ignorant.

Sorry to hear about your situation jbailes.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint
  • Registered: 2014-01-11
  • Posts: 37

Re: Asking for help with tone

macg, please don't be offended. It's probably my fault for opening up a "can 'o worms" topic like tone cause everyone has their own opinion about what sounds good and what don't, and they can be quite impassioned about it. Certainly, there are much more important things in life to focus on than how a guitar sounds.

  • macg1
  • BONAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: St. Petersburg, FL
  • Registered: 2010-01-21
  • Posts: 1,019

Re: Asking for help with tone

jbailes wrote:

macg, please don't be offended. It's probably my fault for opening up a "can 'o worms" topic like tone cause everyone has their own opinion about what sounds good and what don't, and they can be quite impassioned about it. Certainly, there are much more important things in life to focus on than how a guitar sounds.

jbalies, not offended at all. I think these topics are totally worth discussing. A lot of us on the forum have gone down the search, a lot more are doing it now, and the future...

anyhow, keep tone searching for it soothes the soul.

Amp: Firebird Musical Amplifiers
Guitars:62 LP SG , 02 FB VII, JB FB I, 76 Electra Omega, 64 Firebird V, 73 LPC, 61 Custom Tele, 59 and 60 Melody Maker
Effects: Mythos Chupacabra, Strymon Deco/Flint
  • Registered: 2011-02-25
  • Posts: 127

Re: Asking for help with tone

Joe's tone usually has single notes that are sustaining.
I think his pedals really help create his tone.
IMO there isn't a big change when he uses Marshall vs Fender.
There's a real good video on YouTube where Joe shows his pedals and what they do.
I was never a fan of the DLS. The best Marshall style OD pedal is a Weehbo.
I've tried them all.

  • Registered: 2012-03-10
  • Posts: 265

Re: Asking for help with tone

SlyStrat wrote:

Joe's tone usually has single notes that are sustaining.
I think his pedals really help create his tone.
IMO there isn't a big change when he uses Marshall vs Fender.
There's a real good video on YouTube where Joe shows his pedals and what they do.
I was never a fan of the DLS. The best Marshall style OD pedal is a Weehbo.
I've tried them all.


He is currently using two pedals....a wah and a glorified TS.

  • Registered: 2012-03-10
  • Posts: 265

Re: Asking for help with tone

macg1 wrote:
jbyrd1 wrote:
macg1 wrote:

I am sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but if you guys think that from the Budda to the Marshall phases, and from the Marshalls and their versions and with the inclusion of Two Rocks/VanWeeldens/Dumbles, and now the Twin rig, that JB "sounds the same" then you are not really listening. Vast gain structure differences through the years, and a good deal of EQ differences. Let us not forget the different guitars. Does it all sound good? Yes, of course, it is a great player with great gear, hard to sound bad. What doesn't change is JB's playing style and phrasing which does come from his fingers/brain, mood, and soul (if you believe in such things). If gear was not part of the equation, then a Crate amp with a Lotus LP would do the trick.

I think we should really focus on the part of the original question that we can address which is the gear, this is after all the gear portion of the forum, instead of discouraging tone chasing. I went through a long time of gear experimentation before arriving where I am, which is happy and with what I think is my own tone. My opinion is that you have all that you need to get close to the sound. I would suggest adding EV12L speakers to your amps and use the recto verb for some Fenderish tones. Boost the mids/low mids a bit for some Dumblesque flavors You can supplement it with the DC-5 for a nice stereo spread (though I am not really sure of what the DC5 sounds like). Run all the wet effects through effects loops. I would try putting chorus on one side and delay and reverbs on the other, BUT a full dry/wet system may work. I would run your TS into the DLS MKII (try both modes, i prefer the SuperBass in mine though JB did use Superleads). I do that with great results. It was my understanding that JB used to leave the TS on all the time.

I would do some serious tweaking and listening. Pick a song of JB's that you really love and spend the time playing and listening, and if you can recording what you play and listen. Perceived audio and recorded audio can be VASTLY different. Happy tone chasing!

I also never said he sounded the same. He sounds like Joe. His sound has run the gamut, as I have said. Not discouraging anyone from tone chasing, but come on. You don't know what a DC5 sounds like, but are giving advice to the OP on them? Adding speakers? Ughh. OP, good luck, and I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. I'm just being realistic. It's in the ear of the beholder though, so maybe you can get close with what you have by experimenting with settings. I wouldn't go changing speakers any time soon though.

Look, been on this forum for a long time and I gave 100% good advice that was neither discouraging nor suggested selling everything and buying top of the line gear like they would on TGP. I merely pointed out some key things that COULD be done and also admitted my lack of information instead of acting like a know-it-all demagogue. I stand by my advice. Not sure why people here are getting butt-hurt about tone discussions and suggestions. I do feel that tone is a composite of gear and the player, and it of course starts with the player. Anyone would be ignorant to say otherwise, but the gear is also part of it and to not admit it is equally as ignorant.

Sorry to hear about your situation jbailes.

Agreed. The gear is part of it.....and I stand by my advice. Any given individual will sound like themselves. IF you are going to go after someone else's sound, ESPECIALLY Joe's, it gets complicated and expensive. You pointed out that if it was all in the hands of the player, that a Crate and Lotus L.P. would work. Again, agreed. Gear matters. To that end, you aren't going to get tones out of Mesa's that you will out of a wall of vintage Fender amps, Marshall, Dumbles, Carol Ann's, and so on. I don't care what pedals and speakers you have. Period. That's all.

  • Registered: 2009-10-10
  • Posts: 438

Re: Asking for help with tone

Unless you are playing huge clubs, large theaters, or arenas, I think the best way to go is an old fender amp and some pedals. Siverface  Fender Super Reverbs, Bassman heads, and Bandmaster heads can still be had for decent prices.  Try to get a 1973 or earlier. (non-master volume models)Then get a good Marshall voiced pedal.  I like the Jetter 45/100 and the Fulltone Fulldrive 3.  Throw in a tube screamer, reverb pedal, and maybe a delay.  You will get some very good Joe type tones at controllable volumes.  But, the old Fenders will also sound better the louder you can play them.  There are so many great pedals available today you can get very close with a good clean platform amp and a few pedals.  Why buy a big Marshall if you can only have the volume on 2?  I personally never had much luck with Mesa amps but others sure like them.  Good luck.

jbailes, I pray that the near future holds healing and comfort for you.  May God hold you in his healing hands.

  • Registered: 2009-10-10
  • Posts: 438

Re: Asking for help with tone

macg1 wrote:
jbyrd1 wrote:
macg1 wrote:

I am sorry, and I don't mean to offend, but if you guys think that from the Budda to the Marshall phases, and from the Marshalls and their versions and with the inclusion of Two Rocks/VanWeeldens/Dumbles, and now the Twin rig, that JB "sounds the same" then you are not really listening. Vast gain structure differences through the years, and a good deal of EQ differences. Let us not forget the different guitars. Does it all sound good? Yes, of course, it is a great player with great gear, hard to sound bad. What doesn't change is JB's playing style and phrasing which does come from his fingers/brain, mood, and soul (if you believe in such things). If gear was not part of the equation, then a Crate amp with a Lotus LP would do the trick.

I think we should really focus on the part of the original question that we can address which is the gear, this is after all the gear portion of the forum, instead of discouraging tone chasing. I went through a long time of gear experimentation before arriving where I am, which is happy and with what I think is my own tone. My opinion is that you have all that you need to get close to the sound. I would suggest adding EV12L speakers to your amps and use the recto verb for some Fenderish tones. Boost the mids/low mids a bit for some Dumblesque flavors You can supplement it with the DC-5 for a nice stereo spread (though I am not really sure of what the DC5 sounds like). Run all the wet effects through effects loops. I would try putting chorus on one side and delay and reverbs on the other, BUT a full dry/wet system may work. I would run your TS into the DLS MKII (try both modes, i prefer the SuperBass in mine though JB did use Superleads). I do that with great results. It was my understanding that JB used to leave the TS on all the time.

I would do some serious tweaking and listening. Pick a song of JB's that you really love and spend the time playing and listening, and if you can recording what you play and listen. Perceived audio and recorded audio can be VASTLY different. Happy tone chasing!

I also never said he sounded the same. He sounds like Joe. His sound has run the gamut, as I have said. Not discouraging anyone from tone chasing, but come on. You don't know what a DC5 sounds like, but are giving advice to the OP on them? Adding speakers? Ughh. OP, good luck, and I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. I'm just being realistic. It's in the ear of the beholder though, so maybe you can get close with what you have by experimenting with settings. I wouldn't go changing speakers any time soon though.

Look, been on this forum for a long time and I gave 100% good advice that was neither discouraging nor suggested selling everything and buying top of the line gear like they would on TGP. I merely pointed out some key things that COULD be done and also admitted my lack of information instead of acting like a know-it-all demagogue. I stand by my advice. Not sure why people here are getting butt-hurt about tone discussions and suggestions. I do feel that tone is a composite of gear and the player, and it of course starts with the player. Anyone would be ignorant to say otherwise, but the gear is also part of it and to not admit it is equally as ignorant.

Sorry to hear about your situation jbailes.

Agree