• From: kentucky
  • Registered: 2008-03-06
  • Posts: 304

Topic: Knoxville observations

i've had a few days to soak in everything after seeing Joe in Knoxville on Sunday.  I enjoyed the show and Joe was in top form from a playing standpoint.  With that said I do have a a few (gasp, gasp) criticisms!!!!!  I'm not a troll or a hater......I love all things Joe but in trying to be honest about some stuff here is what I noticed;

1) the overall sonic quality of the PA system was excellent.......very clear mix......i could hear the individual notes of the bass really well and Joe's rig sounded as crunchy and punchy as I've heard it sound live.  HOWEVER, when the whole band was jamming and Joe was using a distorted sound his vocal was GONE.....you could barely tell he was singing......this just infuriates me........the room was a great sounding room and Joe's vocals were good when you could hear them but they were totally buried during much of the evening.....to me there is NO EXCUSE for this especially when you pay over $150 for two tickets.  I had a newbie with me that was very impressed with Joe's playing but stated in the car after the show that they wished they could havwe heard the vocals and this person is not a musician and knows nothing about live sound.......VERY dissapointing to say the least. 

2) the new drummer (Tal) is very talented and was actually very funny in his crowd interaction and with the band.  BUT, i just dont think he fits this lineup like he should.  I did not even know who Bogie was until I saw Joe live for the first time and I have nothing agasint Tal but Bogie's playing to my ears fits Joe's music better.....I know Bogie left so somebody had to step in and Tal's resume certainly indicates he has the chops for the job but that's part of my issue I think......his chops......there were many times during the show that Tal's playing was so "chops" oriented that it made the band sound a little disjointed......a drummer doing Joe's music should be solid, and shine when needed but essentially hold the fort down for Joe to shine....I dont have a problem with Tal or any other drummer "showing off" but there were just moments in several songs that while he was playing that it was just difficult to "feel" the groove because he was overly complicating the part I guess for the sake of just doing it because he can.  once again, I'm not a hater but just sharing my honest views and really sort of wondering if anyone else has noticed this?

3)  I have accepted that Joe has an excellent and very successful "business model" in place.....his ticket prices are not cheap but he puts on a long and great show and he is a true virtuoso so I am ok with paying the ticket prices because of his talent level......but I was very surprised on Sunday to see a really cool poster of Joe that was being sold for $50!!!!!!  does anybody else think this is a tad bit on the steep side for a poster? 

I've seen Joe several times in recent years and have loved every second of each of those events and have always left feeling really good about my experience.....I guess I'm just a little sad to leave this show not feeling good about some stuff.....and in all honesty, a few of these things will give me a moment of pause before I pony up the money in the future to automatically say "oh, Joe is coming close by so it's time to get tickets"....and I dont like that feeling.

masque's Website

2 Reply by cathysiler (edited by cathysiler 2011-11-30 17:33:44)

  • From: Deep in the forest
  • Registered: 2007-02-11
  • Posts: 5,296

Re: Knoxville observations

I bet you are a musician. I only say this because musicians seem to be more sensitive to sound issues. No need to gasp. On the contrary, your intent is to improve the show experience. This issue has come up in prior shows. On occasion it's been related to where you were sitting. I don't have answers but I can imagine your disappointment.
As for Tal. I respect your, and others', opinions. I really loved Bogie. He left because he wanted to, so no bad feeling. Tal is a big change and some find him too different, like you do. I really enjoy him. I like he brings FUN to the shows..for the audience and the band. I love all the layers and the surprises. I hope you warm to his style because he isn't going anywhere, as far as I can tell.
As for all the financial issues, I have no response other than everything is optional, except the tickets, of course. I don't know what my personal limit is for those.      Cathy

  • Registered: 2006-04-23
  • Posts: 269

Re: Knoxville observations

Attended Boston on this tour - happy to say no sound issues from our grp. We were ctr orc 20 rows back
I realize the sound differs depending on where you sit at any venue but I have been a bit concerned about the number of less then stellar sound comments at some theatres this tour.
As far as the $50 poster - you are not the only one that felt that way. I posted my feelings elsewhere on the price. The market will dictate whether the price changes. I realize the paper is special but it is only paper.
Thanks for the comments masque - sometimes you need to tell it like it is. Cathy is correct - there is always room for improvement. Joe's people know we are constructive in our comments.
Joe's shows are one special event we all know. If the price is expensive (which we have reached) you expect value for your dollar.
Looking forward to next Spring!

  • From: Nürnberg-Germany
  • Registered: 2008-08-25
  • Posts: 220

Re: Knoxville observations

its very rare but i think its good to read some critcal things sometimes. last time i did that i got attaced at ones.
what you wrote for the prices, tickets or other stuff. if somebody wants 40€ only for a t-shirt like it was in francfort, he better wear it himself, same for overprices posters. everybodys decission, but its getting really luxurious to visit a joe show now, every year a bit more........
Thomas

  • From: kentucky
  • Registered: 2008-03-06
  • Posts: 304

Re: Knoxville observations

hey guys thanks for the positive feedback on my comments....i was VERY reluctant to post my thoughts because I wanted to make sure it that it didnt seem like i was just trying to "stir things up"........i do think Joe and his music is one of the best things going in the music business today.....Joe is truly special and his music and playing have meant so much to me.

as Cathy guessed I am a musician and I play and record music........I'm not super picky with live sound issues because I understand the different rooms and the inherent sound issues that come with those rooms.....but looking around the venue on Sunday it was well built and a place where live sound could be good......the overall clarity of the sound was excellent.....where I was sitting was very close to the sound board so I know I was hearing what the sound man was hearing....the issue was simply that the vocals were totally buried during the heavier sections of the songs.

one of the things that may be playing a factor in the issue is Joe's stage volume......during the last minute stage checks of his rig I was surprised at how loud his rig was......the stage volume was loud even compared to the house music being played through the PA. and I know that Joe uses the plexiglass in front of his amps.  So part of that guitar stage volume may be bleeding into his vocal mic when he sings????  who knows for sure....the sound man probably does......but regardless, it's a shame that someone with the vocal chops of Joe has his voice buried in the mix....

and you guys are right about the poster and what not.....i simply chose to not buy the poster not because i couldnt afford it but out of sheer principle.....i just couldnt wrap my head around paying $50 for it.....Market does dictate price and us Joe fans are pretty loyal so I could see it going for that but i just wont pay it. 

going to a concert these days is a financial event;

gas travelling from Ky to Knoxville $50
2 tickets for me and fiance             $150
coke and a snack at venue             $6
parking                                            $5
dinner earlier in the day                  $50

i would have loved a couple of shirts for me and her  $60
poster                                                                          $50


now obviously i didnt do everything above......but what I did do cost me over $250.....and I understand that dinner and a coke at the venue were optional but not the other items such as gas, parking and the tickets........

if i had done everything i wanted then going to this show would have been close to $370.......yikes......it's just making me take a step back think about things.....i mean i just bought tickets to see roger waters do the wall in nashville next summer and my tickets were only $60 more total than what I just paid to see Joe in Knoxville ($30 per ticket).

i just think based on the cost and then dealing with things like a poor mix can make some "repeat customers" like myself become less frequent visitors to future events......I hope that's not the case but I am concerned right now.

thanks for letting me vent.

masque's Website

  • Registered: 2011-11-11
  • Posts: 3

Re: Knoxville observations

my ticket was $69 plus fees, etc, etc...so close to $90..
i drove 2 hours each direction
this was my second show, and i would have paid double and not given any thought to the matter.

then again, im no musician so im not going to be critical of things the same way as you (the ONLY thing i noticed in knox. was during REALLY quiet times, i could hear buzzing from the amplifiers, which may even be normal...but it was very audible to me

then there was the woman making orgasm sounds really loud, everytime it was quiet in there..hahahahah, some people never cease to amaze me at concerts... (see thread regarding drinking and peoples behavior at joe shows, its a great read)

  • From: Was NY now FL/GA line
  • Registered: 2007-12-16
  • Posts: 2,855

Re: Knoxville observations

p1r4nha wrote:

then there was the woman making orgasm sounds really loud, everytime it was quiet in there..hahahahah, some people never cease to amaze me at concerts...

Sounds like one of the JB shows I attended in NY not too long ago. Oh yeah, she was very loud! Some of the people around were laughing, others were not so amused. I admit it was funny. At first.

I've driven up to 6 hours each way (same day/night) for a JB show. And I'll very happily do it again.

  • From: East Lancashire, UK
  • Registered: 2011-06-24
  • Posts: 3,019

Re: Knoxville observations

Never realized Joe was that good to be able to have that effect on female audience members as well as being a blues guitar god. Hell that man has talent lol lol lol

Come on the Blades (sorry Idolbone just had to borrow your line)
  • From: kentucky
  • Registered: 2008-03-06
  • Posts: 304

Re: Knoxville observations

p1r4nha wrote:

my ticket was $69 plus fees, etc, etc...so close to $90..
i drove 2 hours each direction
this was my second show, and i would have paid double and not given any thought to the matter.

then again, im no musician so im not going to be critical of things the same way as you (the ONLY thing i noticed in knox. was during REALLY quiet times, i could hear buzzing from the amplifiers, which may even be normal...but it was very audible to me

then there was the woman making orgasm sounds really loud, everytime it was quiet in there..hahahahah, some people never cease to amaze me at concerts... (see thread regarding drinking and peoples behavior at joe shows, its a great read)


yes the buzzing from the amps is a normal thing unless you have noise gates on them but many players prefer to not muck up the signal chain by placing a noise gate in the system and many others feel that the gates "choke" the natural sound and dynamics of the amps........

masque's Website

  • Registered: 2010-10-17
  • Posts: 6

Re: Knoxville observations

Hi Masque,
I just happened to stumble upon your post as I was checking for a review/setlist of last nights show in Phoenix (I saw Joe last night during his second show in Phoenix 12/6). The reason I am replying to your post is that everything you said echoed completely with me.
I bought two tickets and a friend of mine came along. My friend had never attended a Joe B concert before but he too mentioned on the way home in the car that at some points during the show he could not make out what Joe was actually singing even though he thoroughly enjoyed the show.
I personally did not mind too much as I come for the guitar virtuosity and, from being an avid fan, I am familiar with the lyrics so my memory probably constructs any gaps created by any supressed vocals.

I have seen Joe play in Dublin twice (Oct 2009 and Oct 2010) and both shows were amazaing. At the time, of course, Bogie Bowles was in command of the drums and I felt and still feel that his style/technique fitted/fits with the rest of the band perfectly.
During the first few opening tracks last night, I remember thinking that Tal's drumming was a little bit out of the groove/off time/over the top and some of his "fills" just didn't fit in with the songs. I play a little guitar but am not a proper musician so I don't have the knowledge to provide technical critisism of somebody's drumming but all I know is that it just didn't sound right.

After 3 or 4 songs I did feel that the drumming had improved (or perhaps I just got used to it). Compared to Bogie (from my experiences at the 2 Dublin shows) I observed a lot more interaction between Joe and Tal. Most of the time this was fun and like the rest of the audience I really enjoyed the interaction between the two but I do have one major gripe as a consequence of this interaction. During some guitar solos Joe had his entire back to the audience. This occured for pretty much the full duration of "Lonesome Road Blues" where Joe had his back to the audience for all of the guitar work apart from walking to the mike to sing. When he was done singing he was back over to Tal with his back to the audience again for another round of soloing. I couldn't believe it and thought it was a bit rude and dismissive of the audience. I don't mind a bit of "call and response" interaction between Tal and Joe every now and again but there is no need to be playing TO the drummer during a full blown guitar solo (Tal was just keeping rhythm at the time). That is what WE come for. I am not sure if this has become a habit of Joe recently or just a once off but Carmine seemed a bit awkward/embarasssed about it after a few minutes.

Regarding tickets, I think they can be a bit on the steep side (I paid ($69.95 + $9.95) x 2 = ~ $160) but I don't mind too much. Joe has got to be the hardest working musician out there. He puts all his soul and effort into every performance (even though it must be like groundhog day for him) and he derserves all the success he gets. I sometimes worry that he'll burn out or drop from exhaustion on stage! I guess the only downside of steep ticket prices is that they might deter some young would-be fans from attending.

I hope this post doesn't sound too negative as we had a fantastic time last night and my friend was blown away by Joe's performance as I knew he would be!

  • RickB
  • RickB
  • BONAMEGAMETAL
  • Offline
  • From: San Diego
  • Registered: 2009-10-30
  • Posts: 12,198

Re: Knoxville observations

If you think a little back to the audience is bad, wait until you see an Eric Johnson show. Half the time he is in that position. Audio mix has been a recurring theme and is probably more due to where the seats were since others at the same shows told of perfect coverage. Thanks for the review.
Rick

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