Topic: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Any scientists in the house? What do we make of this? To a layman this sounds like a load of tosh, but I understand that if this is proven, the world of science in general, and physics in particular, will have to be fundamentally rethought.


Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

By Jason Palmer Science and technology reporter, BBC News

Puzzling results from Cern, home of the Large Hadron Collider, have confounded physicists because subatomic particles seem to have beaten the speed of light.

Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away in Italy seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.

The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - were put online for scrutiny by other scientists.

In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.

They will be discussing the result in detail in a conference at Cern on Friday afternoon, which can be viewed online.

"We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.

"We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.

"When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"
Caught speeding?

The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his theory of special relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.

Thousands of experiments have been undertaken to measure it ever more precisely, and no result has ever spotted a particle breaking the limit.

But Dr Ereditato and his colleagues have been carrying out an experiment for the last three years that seems to suggest neutrinos have done just that.

Neutrinos come in a number of types, and have recently been seen to switch spontaneously from one type to another.

The team prepares a beam of just one type, muon neutrinos, sending them from Cern to an underground laboratory at Gran Sasso in Italy to see how many show up as a different type, tau neutrinos.

In the course of doing the experiments, the researchers noticed that the particles showed up 60 billionths of a second sooner than light would over the same distance - a tiny fractional change, but a consistent one.

The team measured the travel times of neutrino bunches some 15,000 times, and have reached a level of statistical significance that in scientific circles would count as a formal discovery.

But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

"My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato said.

But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".

"And of course the consequences can be very serious."

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

I had heard of the anomaly of FTL observations. This may validate theories of "wormhole drives". I enjoy particle physics discussions and have a layman's understanding of the basics, since I once worked in the field. If true, this turns physics on its head once more. The neutrino is a particle which has been under intense scrutiny for quite some time. Lots to be learned still.
Rick

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Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Very interesting ... even Einstein thought his theory was incomplete and was open to other possibilities.  Macro and micro physics just don't mesh and there has been a lot of theorizing and searching for something that would align them.  I've read some other things along these lines, will try to find some links when have time ... It's exciting be living in the time when physics possibly jumps to the next level!

Sandy

I know a place ....

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

"Take her to warp 7 Mr. Chekhov!"  tongue

Major Tom to ground control...

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

A related article:

http://news.yahoo.com/strange-particles … 10201.html

"Set the controls for the heart of the Sun."

Why don't we eliminate all the warning labels and let things sort themselves out?

6 (edited by Pete The Cabby 2011-09-23 23:54:03)

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

...damn 'experts'!...dont see what all the fuss is about!?...just more old news They never told you about presented as 'LatestNews'!...They do it all the time!  roll

In 1985 it was proposed by Chodos et al. that neutrinos can have a tachyonic nature.[7][8] Today, the possibility of having standard particles moving at superluminal speeds is a natural consequence of unconventional dispersion relations that appear in the Standard-Model Extension,[9][10][11] a realistic description of the possible violation of Lorentz invariance in field theory. In this framework, neutrinos experience Lorentz-violating oscillations and can travel faster than light at high energies.

...can anyone tell if this means i will be able to upload my vid's faster on YouTube?  hmm

Everyone is born a genius, but the process of living de-geniuses them.
R. Buckminster Fuller

7 (edited by Rocket 2011-09-24 03:41:12)

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Pete The Cabby wrote:

...damn 'experts'!...dont see what all the fuss is about!?...just more old news They never told you about presented as 'LatestNews'!...They do it all the time!  roll

In 1985 it was proposed by Chodos et al. that neutrinos can have a tachyonic nature.[7][8] Today, the possibility of having standard particles moving at superluminal speeds is a natural consequence of unconventional dispersion relations that appear in the Standard-Model Extension,[9][10][11] a realistic description of the possible violation of Lorentz invariance in field theory. In this framework, neutrinos experience Lorentz-violating oscillations and can travel faster than light at high energies.

...can anyone tell if this means i will be able to upload my vid's faster on YouTube?  hmm

It means you can upload instantly (without having to wait until "later") to viewers who actually see it before you do, which, looking at your video field, is slightly behind the actual action and the viewing of the instant live (television like) images and sounds your distant (or near) viewers see.  It will introduce some new minor and usually unrecognizable artifacts in both the product and humans, with anomalies in the cognitive responses in your frontal lobes in particular and much else of your brain.  Though exceedingly small in timing, the variants have a perceivable effect on actual length of program and actual location, with major skewing of any associated GPS circuitries
data to the point of possible total uselessness.  Not to mention the fact you'll have memory slippage upon partial recalls as whether and / or why you don't seem to remember a little something being quite the way it looks or sounds from random time-to-time!  As far as I can tell.  wink

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Note: first things first about this news...some drooling to supersede Einstein (don't count on it).  That is the primary "major consequences", despite being couched in bland understatements (like athletes & politicians).  Yes, scientists have egos too.  And love lives sometimes, too.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Rocket wrote:

It means you can upload instantly (without having to wait until "later") to viewers who actually see it before you do, which, looking at your video field, is slightly behind the actual action and the viewing of the instant live (television like) images and sounds your distant (or near) viewers see.  It will introduce some new minor and usually unrecognizable artifacts in both the product and humans, with anomalies in the cognitive responses in your frontal lobes in particular and much else of your brain.  Though exceedingly small in timing, the variants have a perceivable effect on actual length of program and actual location, with major skewing of any associated GPS circuitries
data to the point of possible total uselessness.  Not to mention the fact you'll have memory slippage upon partial recalls as whether and / or why you don't seem to remember a little something being quite the way it looks or sounds from random time-to-time!  As far as I can tell.  wink

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Note: first things first about this news...some drooling to supersede Einstein (don't count on it).  That is the primary "major consequences", despite being couched in bland understatements (like athletes & politicians).  Yes, scientists have egos too.  And love lives sometimes, too.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Well, that's a relief then. Thanks for clearing that up, Rocket.  tongue   lol

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Without starting yet another science trelated topic, here's some more pretty interesting news.

Alpha radiation treats prostate cancers

By James Gallagher Health reporter, BBC News


A trial of a new cancer drug, which accurately targets tumours, has been so successful it has been stopped early.

Doctors at London's Royal Marsden Hospital gave prostate cancer patients a powerful alpha radiation drug and found that they lived longer, and experienced less pain and side effects.

The medics then stopped the trial of 922 people, saying it was unethical not to offer all of them the treatment.

Lead researcher Dr Chris Parker said it was "a significant step forward".

Cancer Research UK said it was a very important and promising discovery.

Radiation has been used to treat tumours for more than a century. It damages the genetic code inside cancerous cells.

Alpha particles are the big, bulky, bruisers of the radiation world. It is a barrage of helium nuclei, which are far bigger than beta radiation, a stream of electrons, or gamma waves.

Dr Parker told the BBC: "It's more damaging. It takes one, two, three hits to kill a cancer cell compared with thousands of hits for beta particles."

Alpha particles also do less damage to surrounding tissue. He added: "They have such a tiny range, a few millionths of a metre. So we can be sure that the damage is being done where it should be."

Each year in the UK about 36,000 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer; about 10,000 die from it

In most cases, it is a slow-growing cancer and may never cause any symptoms or problems. Some men will have a fast growing cancer that needs treatment

Worldwide, an estimated 913,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2008, and more than two-thirds of cases are diagnosed in developed countries

In 90% of patients with advanced prostate cancer, the tumour will have spread to the bone. At this stage there are no treatments which affect survival.

The study looked at patients with these secondary cancers, as the source of radiation - radium-223 chloride - acts like calcium and sticks to bone.

Half were given the radium-223 chloride drug alongside traditional chemotherapy, while the other patients received chemotherapy and a dummy pill.

The death rate was 30% lower in the group taking radium-223. Those patients survived for 14 months on average compared to 11 months in the dummy group.

The trial was abandoned as "it would have been unethical not to offer the active treatment to those taking placebo", said Dr Parker.

He added: "I think it will be a significant step forward for cancer patients".

Researchers also said the treatment was safe. Curiously there were fewer side-effects in the group taking the treatment than those taking the dummy medicine.

The findings are being presented at the European Multidisciplinary Cancer Congress but they have not yet been peer-reviewed by other academics.

Prof Gillies McKenna, Cancer Research UK's radiotherapy expert and director of the Gray Institute for Radiation Oncology and Biology, said: "This appears to be an important study using a highly targeted form of radiation to treat prostate cancer that has spread to the bones.

"This research looks very promising and could be an important addition to approaches available to treat secondary tumours - and should be investigated further."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15039216

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Amsterhammer wrote:

Without starting yet another science trelated topic, here's some more pretty interesting news.

Alpha radiation treats prostate cancers

By James Gallagher Health reporter, BBC News


A trial of a new cancer drug, which accurately targets tumours, has been so successful it has been stopped early.

Doctors at London's Royal Marsden Hospital gave prostate cancer patients a powerful alpha radiation drug and found that they lived longer, and experienced less pain and side effects.

The medics then stopped the trial of 922 people, saying it was unethical not to offer all of them the treatment.

Lead researcher Dr Chris Parker said it was "a significant step forward".

Cancer Research UK said it was a very important and promising discovery.

Radiation has been used to treat tumours for more than a century. It damages the genetic code inside cancerous cells.

Alpha particles are the big, bulky, bruisers of the radiation world. It is a barrage of helium nuclei, which are far bigger than beta radiation, a stream of electrons, or gamma waves.

Dr Parker told the BBC: "It's more damaging. It takes one, two, three hits to kill a cancer cell compared with thousands of hits for beta particles."

Alpha particles also do less damage to surrounding tissue. He added: "They have such a tiny range, a few millionths of a metre. So we can be sure that the damage is being done where it should be."

Each year in the UK about 36,000 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer; about 10,000 die from it

In most cases, it is a slow-growing cancer and may never cause any symptoms or problems. Some men will have a fast growing cancer that needs treatment

Worldwide, an estimated 913,000 men were diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2008, and more than two-thirds of cases are diagnosed in developed countries

In 90% of patients with advanced prostate cancer, the tumour will have spread to the bone. At this stage there are no treatments which affect survival.

The study looked at patients with these secondary cancers, as the source of radiation - radium-223 chloride - acts like calcium and sticks to bone.

Half were given the radium-223 chloride drug alongside traditional chemotherapy, while the other patients received chemotherapy and a dummy pill.

The death rate was 30% lower in the group taking radium-223. Those patients survived for 14 months on average compared to 11 months in the dummy group.

The trial was abandoned as "it would have been unethical not to offer the active treatment to those taking placebo", said Dr Parker.

He added: "I think it will be a significant step forward for cancer patients".

Researchers also said the treatment was safe. Curiously there were fewer side-effects in the group taking the treatment than those taking the dummy medicine.

The findings are being presented at the European Multidisciplinary Cancer Congress but they have not yet been peer-reviewed by other academics.

Prof Gillies McKenna, Cancer Research UK's radiotherapy expert and director of the Gray Institute for Radiation Oncology and Biology, said: "This appears to be an important study using a highly targeted form of radiation to treat prostate cancer that has spread to the bones.

"This research looks very promising and could be an important addition to approaches available to treat secondary tumours - and should be investigated further."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15039216

 

Good news if my cancer comes back!!!

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

tarus52 wrote:

Good news if my cancer comes back!!!

Please God that it doesn't Bob, and that you won't ever need this!

RIP Iron Man

Rock On and keep the Faith

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

A trial of a new cancer drug, which accurately targets tumours, has been so successful it has been stopped early.

Blasphemers.  Charlatans.  Pansies.

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

13 (edited by bigjeffjones 2011-09-24 08:45:03)

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Jane H. wrote:

did you read on? they stopped it early so that the research subjects who weren't getting it for the study could get it for their benefit

I read it all.  Twice.  I don't believe them.

EDITZ:  BigPharma has no ethics.  They're behind it.

Rock On & Keep the FAITH
             It is
Blues From the Bottoms

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

This is an article relating to Amsterhammers's cancer post:

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/hiv-trea … ancer-cure

It's a pretty long article, but essentially scientists have taken HIV cells and reengineered them to attack tumor cells. The way I understand it, they've been able to cure some subjects who had cancer in about 28 days. I find this protocol very promising as patients don't have to go through the long process of chemotherapy with all of it's bad side effects. At the moment they are able to reengineer these cells to attack just one type of tumor cell, but are optimistic that they'll be able to "make" them attack other forms of cancer. Very promising stuff!

Why don't we eliminate all the warning labels and let things sort themselves out?

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

I have had some interesting conversations with my oldest son, who graduated from college #1 in Physics this past May.  His area of interest is Theory, he will be very upset if this turns out to be true.  (Maybe its a good thing he has decided to go the MD/PhD route in Neurology, which actually involves physics in the brain with electrical charges...) 

OK, this is seriously HEAVY stuff and I don't claim to have absorbed even half of what he was trying to explain, but he did mention the Lorentz theory quoted above and he sent me this link.

For What Its Worth, the conclusion is at the end.   wink
http://johncostella.webs.com/neutrino-blunder.pdf

StringsforaCURE~Helping cancer patients one STRING at a time.
http://stringsforacure.com/

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

RICjunkie wrote:

"Take her to warp 7 Mr. Chekhov!"  tongue

O Captain, My Captain (wait, I may have the wrong movie... wink ) , you must know if we go to Warp 7 or above, there is a danger of being sucked into a wormhole and going down, down under where not only wormholes spin in the opposite direction, but where toilets do too! Then as they say, we will be in a world of sh*t! (Damn, wrong movie again! tongue )

Mr. Chekhov

Joe is the Best!

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

Rocket wrote:
Pete The Cabby wrote:

...damn 'experts'!...dont see what all the fuss is about!?...just more old news They never told you about presented as 'LatestNews'!...They do it all the time!  roll

In 1985 it was proposed by Chodos et al. that neutrinos can have a tachyonic nature.[7][8] Today, the possibility of having standard particles moving at superluminal speeds is a natural consequence of unconventional dispersion relations that appear in the Standard-Model Extension,[9][10][11] a realistic description of the possible violation of Lorentz invariance in field theory. In this framework, neutrinos experience Lorentz-violating oscillations and can travel faster than light at high energies.

...can anyone tell if this means i will be able to upload my vid's faster on YouTube?  hmm

It means you can upload instantly (without having to wait until "later") to viewers who actually see it before you do, which, looking at your video field, is slightly behind the actual action and the viewing of the instant live (television like) images and sounds your distant (or near) viewers see.  It will introduce some new minor and usually unrecognizable artifacts in both the product and humans, with anomalies in the cognitive responses in your frontal lobes in particular and much else of your brain.  Though exceedingly small in timing, the variants have a perceivable effect on actual length of program and actual location, with major skewing of any associated GPS circuitries
data to the point of possible total uselessness.  Not to mention the fact you'll have memory slippage upon partial recalls as whether and / or why you don't seem to remember a little something being quite the way it looks or sounds from random time-to-time!  As far as I can tell.  wink

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

Note: first things first about this news...some drooling to supersede Einstein (don't count on it).  That is the primary "major consequences", despite being couched in bland understatements (like athletes & politicians).  Yes, scientists have egos too.  And love lives sometimes, too.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket


That's good Rocky!  lol   I think it's all still "controversial," i.e. none of the "experts" can agree or duplicate research, possibly related to the egos.  However, if the particle is cutting through a worm hole, it doesn't have to exceed the speed of light to get there earlier, as it's taken a massive shortcut!!

Still, as long as Pete's vids are uploading faster, that's all that matters ...  cool

Sandy

I know a place ....

Re: Even more important scientific news (serious)

...Rocky would make an excellent 'expert' dont you think Sandy!?  lol

Everyone is born a genius, but the process of living de-geniuses them.
R. Buckminster Fuller