19 (edited by BluesMan 2010-11-12 16:15:38)

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Plain and simple, it's all about money.

Gibson, Fender etc. along with the artists, are in business to make money. No hidden agendas, just make money!

Of course, it always helps when someone like JB wants the guitar made to his specs and makes sure the manufacturer follows up on their promise. After all, his name is on the product and it does appear to me that Joe really cares about what his fans buy. Even his T-shirts/hats/etc. wear well. When it comes to price, quality counts. cool

Roy

Joe is the Best!

20 (edited by Rocket 2010-11-12 16:30:45)

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

DaveWammbarro wrote:

Collectors CANNOT play guitar.

That is ridiculous.  Joe Bonamassa is a collector.  smile  Who plays. And not the only one. 
I know your point has some validity (lots)... wink
Hilarious inference about the Les Paul being signature, but I think an even  more respectable name would be TRADEMARKED (and genius)!
Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

I said that to bring out the loud-mouths...clearly worked.  roll

Though I mean the guys with one of every sig. guitar...like a museum or a Hard Rock Cafe sort of man...we can all get lots of nice stuff, but those who claim guitars like the Fender Jaguar (car) collaboration and the signed guitars...well...shame.

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

DaveWammbarro wrote:

I said that to bring out the loud-mouths...clearly worked.  roll

Though I mean the guys with one of every sig. guitar...like a museum or a Hard Rock Cafe sort of man...we can all get lots of nice stuff, but those who claim guitars like the Fender Jaguar (car) collaboration and the signed guitars...well...shame.

I loudly agree with you.  It's a total shame and a sham on the overall marketing and pricings.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

DaveWammbarro wrote:

I said that to bring out the loud-mouths...clearly worked.  roll

I say I'm a collector when I'm around better players than I am! wink
Because I think I'm a better collector than player. Although I have guitars with signatures on them I still play them out. Some of them are wearing off - but guitars like you said are meant to be played, and sometimes collected and hoarded in the process!  big_smile

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

The part that gets me is the seediness of some of the marketing and even the actual stuff.  On top of that the sometimes short-lived aspect of the name dropping. Sometimes I suppose you could call it all masterful marketing ploys, but as Dave says, a lot of it is tat, which, although I don't know the term, I am deducing means not worth the time of day let alone the price.  And tat at the outset, not after the rush of buying and holding, or hoarding, if that is the case.  Does company f really need to pump up sales by riding artist b's coattails? Since we, company f, decided WE want part of artist b, YOU too should want to buy into the part of f that wants said artist.  And does artist b really need to be associated with company f, as if without f, artist b's life would be severely impacted in the quality of their artistic endeavors?  neutral  neutral  neutral It's convenient for sure, and part and parcel of life and even much, much, much worse in other cross-dependent business relationships.  Just draw a line somewhere, regardless of side of ventures one resides.  My life experiences, for me, demonstrate that low-key, friendly advice from knowledgeable participants who compile and resolve all aspects of pricing vs. usage, i.e. cost of actual pleasing functionality and resultant integrated quality or qualities should be sufficient, and just toss out the hype.

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

I can see why companys use artists to sell their products as the competition is big to sell as many guitars amps ect , as they can

(in fact I sometimes wonder where all the guitars manufactured in the last 50 years are  yikes )

anyway a signature model will be sold to someone who is a big fan of the said artiste they might not even play the guitar but just want to have that JBLP.  I almost bought a Hank Marvin Candy apple red Strat once from A guy who had just bought it cos he wanted to learn to play like Hank but never got round to it , so there was a sale to someone who ordinarily might never even have bought a guitar ever.

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

26 (edited by NPB_EST.1979 2010-11-13 18:30:28)

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Rocket wrote:

Does company f really need to pump up sales by riding artist b's coattails? Since we, company f, decided WE want part of artist b, YOU too should want to buy into the part of f that wants said artist.  And does artist b really need to be associated with company f, as if without f, artist b's life would be severely impacted in the quality of their artistic endeavors?  neutral  neutral  neutral
Rocket

Obviously people "Jones" for Joe's stuff. We might not have heard of a lot of the companies below if it wasn't for Joe. I like to think what he plays does indeed impact the sound of his albums... I notice it especially during the Gigliotti years in the transition to the LesPaul years. Severely impact quality? I'd say 'no,' but influence on creativity? 'Yes.' How many of these companies wear Joe like a badge of honor? All but one. wink

Guitars:
Exhibit A: Gigliotti -> Joe
Exhibit B: not Fender -> Joe
Exhibit C: Gibson -> Joe
Exhibit D: MusicMan -> Joe

AMPS:
Exhibit E: Budda -> Joe
Exhibit F: CarolAnn -> Joe
Exhibit G: Category5 -> Joe
Exhibit H: Marshall? -> Joe
Exhibit I: Van Weelden-> Joe

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

27 (edited by Rocket 2010-11-14 01:36:43)

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

NPB_EST.1979 wrote:
Rocket wrote:

Does company f really need to pump up sales by riding artist b's coattails? Since we, company f, decided WE want part of artist b, YOU too should want to buy into the part of f that wants said artist.  And does artist b really need to be associated with company f, as if without f, artist b's life would be severely impacted in the quality of their artistic endeavors?  neutral  neutral  neutral
Rocket

Obviously people "Jones" for Joe's stuff. We might not have heard of a lot of the companies below if it wasn't for Joe. I like to think what he plays does indeed impact the sound of his albums... I notice it especially during the Gigliotti years in the transition to the LesPaul years. Severely impact quality? I'd say 'no,' but influence on creativity? 'Yes.' How many of these companies wear Joe like a badge of honor? All but one. wink

Guitars:
Exhibit A: Gigliotti -> Joe
Exhibit B: not Fender -> Joe
Exhibit C: Gibson -> Joe
Exhibit D: MusicMan -> Joe

AMPS:
Exhibit E: Budda -> Joe
Exhibit F: CarolAnn -> Joe
Exhibit G: Category5 -> Joe
Exhibit H: Marshall? -> Joe
Exhibit I: Van Weelden-> Joe

Yup! All but one.  There is the part where you have to give if you're gonna take.  Some artists give the endorsement only to take money and publicity and some music merchants take the association without the proper remuneration or even proper credit!!! No good!

I agree about the possibilities of creativity influence, but it certainly has to have been a desirable route the artist wanted to take in the first place......or else they were pretty desperate (certainly applies to both my above statements also).

Rock ON & Keep the Faith,
Rocket

"He still doesn't charge for mistakes! wink"
http://jbonamassa.com/tour-dates/
"Everybody wants ta get inta the act!"
“Now, this isn’t your ordinary party crowd, here.  I mean, there are professionals in here.”

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

SOFTMC wrote:

I can see why companys use artists to sell their products as the competition is big to sell as many guitars amps ect , as they can

(in fact I sometimes wonder where all the guitars manufactured in the last 50 years are  yikes )

anyway a signature model will be sold to someone who is a big fan of the said artiste they might not even play the guitar but just want to have that JBLP.  I almost bought a Hank Marvin Candy apple red Strat once from A guy who had just bought it cos he wanted to learn to play like Hank but never got round to it , so there was a sale to someone who ordinarily might never even have bought a guitar ever.

Signature guitars are not always just for those who are big fans. I have a PRS DGT, I'd never heard of David Grissom until I read the review of the guitar in guitarist. It ticked all the boxes for me as a guitar so I saved and saved and saved some more and finally got one, 10 top with birds.

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Ted Nugent gives a really good account of the importance of signature gear. 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxKjcIU6fo0

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

xcorporate wrote:

Ted Nugent gives a really good account of the importance of signature gear. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxKjcIU6fo0

lol Exactly! Thanks for making my Monday! smile

Roy

Joe is the Best!

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Fuzzblues wrote:
SOFTMC wrote:

I can see why companys use artists to sell their products as the competition is big to sell as many guitars amps ect , as they can

(in fact I sometimes wonder where all the guitars manufactured in the last 50 years are  yikes )

anyway a signature model will be sold to someone who is a big fan of the said artiste they might not even play the guitar but just want to have that JBLP.  I almost bought a Hank Marvin Candy apple red Strat once from A guy who had just bought it cos he wanted to learn to play like Hank but never got round to it , so there was a sale to someone who ordinarily might never even have bought a guitar ever.

Signature guitars are not always just for those who are big fans. I have a PRS DGT, I'd never heard of David Grissom until I read the review of the guitar in guitarist. It ticked all the boxes for me as a guitar so I saved and saved and saved some more and finally got one, 10 top with birds.

Yes I totally agree with you on that point .
Just trying to think as the big companys are thinking ie how do we sell  a new les paul for over twice what it would normally cost  to buy? make it a signature model .
I had friend who was in our band who had an Ibanez steve lukather guitar from the 80s he bought it cos it was going cheap second hand and man that was an awesome guitar !!

"Everybody's entitled to my opinion. wink

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

For me personally, it comes down to what sort of premium the manufacturer is charging for a 'signature' guitar.  A 10% premium over a stock standard model I think is OK.  I'd even go to 20%.

However I see some manufacturers charging 100%, sometimes even up to 500% for an artist model.  Not sure about that at all, but then again, if there is a market of collectors that will pay that, then I guess market forces will dictate.  In any case, I don't like how these prices are set based on some presupposed hype and expected demand.

What happens when the pricing has missed the mark?  What if company 'X' has a guitar model 'Y' which normally sells for $2000.  Then they release an 'Artist Z' model of 'Y' which sells for $8000.  They may sell half of their initial release to the avid collectors and die hard fans, but then the remaining inventory sits around for a while.  6 months later they mark down the signature series to $4000 to clear them out.

How would the early adopters feel to have their 'investments' halved just like that?  Just because some corporate MBA got a little bit greedy ahead of time?

Personally, I consider myself a big Joe B fan, and yes, watching him play a Gold Top LP has made me desire one, but I really don't know if I will actually go out to buy the signature Gold Top - even though I can afford to.  I would rather get a Historic Shop '57 Gold Top Reissue and make some minor mods to suit my playing style and tone.

JBLP Gold Top #129 - redubbed "#1 in Oz"

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Where can I buy something to make Ted Nugent go away...?

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

+1

DaveWammbarro wrote:

Where can I buy something to make Ted Nugent go away...?

Gits: '03 Gibson Historic R7 Goldtop, '06 Gibson R8 Plaintop, MIJ '62 RI Strat,  and others...
Amps: '99 Marshall 1987x Plexi RI, 1969 Fender Super Reverb

My band: www.meanbones.com

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

awww you guys don't like Sweaty Uncle Teddy?

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool

Re: How far is too far when talking signature gear?

Ha ha understandable.  He's harmless, unless you're a deer or a democrat. smile   I have about a 2 minute/month Ted limit......




NPB_EST.1979 wrote:

awww you guys don't like Sweaty Uncle Teddy?