Perhaps the best Dumble tone? (my .02) (Page 4 of 5)

Good Day,

I must say that the "Tone" of the conversations, regarding the Dum*** products over here,

are much more ...shall I say civilized?

I've been a member over at TGP now for a while..and I like the forum over there,

but like anything else, once you involve human nature in the mix, look out.

There are some individuals over there, who WANT / NEED attention, and will "stir" the pot

to get it. Obviously, low self esteem problems.

My problem is: I don't like the personal attacks, I find it rude and uncalled for.

I spoke up for Joe, as did others, because it was the right thing to do...

Joe also, surely realizes that , with "fame" comes responsibility, and

unfortunately, the risks, that people are going to take "shots" at you, if you put your

opinions out there, for public scrutiny. I guess only he can decide how much he wants to subject

himself to that type of behavior.

It is no wonder, many famous people chose to avoid the headlines, and their fans, because of the

risks of hostile reprisals. I hope Joe doesn't choose this path.

I met him and I thought he was a genuinely nice guy. As a fan, that was a BIG moment

in my normal hum drum life. Thanks Joe.

I have heard Dum***'s that I thought sounded great. Indeed, in the hands of

a great guitar player...who has thoughtfully determined their desired EQ settings....wonderful

Having said that...I'll be honest, 

I have a Crate V32 that I modified with a new OT, and speaker upgrade, and that amp sounds

as good to me, as any "Boutique" amp I've heard, as does my 77 Marshall JMP combo.

I bought both for $400 each......(Although I would love to get my hands on a Carol Ann for a demo)

For me, right now, all I want is a good Fender Dulex Reverb or HR3 ($700) and I

should have my bases covered, barring of course, potentially falling in love with the CA

Good amps, can be found used, for not a lot of money.

Do I want a Dum***...Nope,  What for?

If you had one, then what? Where are you going to take it, for fear that it would be stolen?

Forget it...It's not worth it to me. For $20,000 and up I can buy a lot of other nice musical

things..like a JB LP etc.

For under $2000 you can get a lot of amp these days....

Cheers

So let me do a little run down of the clip and put some perspective to it.

The key is in the video...look at the master level....listen to how loud you can hear the footswitch. This amp is barely even on. Most Dumbles are gain staged to be played at a live playing level, this means that all the gain stages are set up to run at a sweet spot in a relatively small range. Invariably each Dumble made was going to be used by a professional guy in a professional environment at a reasonable volume....not in a bedroom or house.
If you play an amp gain staged to be run at a live level with the master barely on, you hear an inherent amount of preamp 'fuzz'. I can tell just by hearing that ampin that clip that if the master was pushed to around 10 O' Clock it would be a whole different animal. Each preamp stage, the PI, the way the PI reacts with the power tubes and the power tubes themselves respond differently at different levels and the amount of harmonic complexity is governed by this. As you increase the level on this amp more 3rd and 5th order harmonics would appear that would drive the amp more forward and appear much more foccussed. THe key is keeping the balance of odd and even order harmonics correct at the target playing level so it's got good width and complexity, but also focus in the mid range frequencies that set it through the mix based on how hard it is played. A common mistake of builders is to build amps that sound huge at low volumes due to the mass of even order harmonics but as soon as you get them in a band mix they turn to mush.
On the opposite end a cranked Marshall 100W has a very predominant amount of odd order content meaning it cuts right through the mix.

So basically you have to design an amp for it's intended use. The larger the sweet spot, the more appealing it is to a wider audience. The CA JB-100 has a very narrow sweet spot and Joe runs it in that at all times. The OD-2 has a much wider sweet spot. At Joes playing levels however the JB-100 will crush an OD2. But at small club levels the JB-100 is a pig to play....and guess what, it's OD channel will sound not a million miles away from the clip in this thread.
The other thing is the bass response on high volume gain staged amp is pretty terrible at low volumes, it's very mushy. THe more signal thats driving the more global feedback there is in the power amp tightening up the low end. Another thing you have to design in to amp based on it's intended use.

So there you go........a technical rundown. An amplifier doesn't just amplify. it's a tone generator and literally does create layers of overtones along with the fundamental signal. Conclusion being yet another clip of a Dumble not being run as it was intended.

On a non-technical note, the amount of reverb in the clip is distracting from the actual core tone.

Joes ears are very tuned to this balance being correct. The combination of complementing amplifiers working together is a sure fire way of being able to tune this balance any way you want. Joe also understands the critical importance of the mid range frequencies for creating 'a voice'.  This clip was very hoarse in any of the vocal mid range frequencies and it makes perfect sense to me why it would not be liked by him.

Geez...this stuff's a black art ya know......

Cool - Big Mike, wishkadaddy, Aussiemeats and Carol-Ann Amps were on TGP supporting our man Joe! I dropped the gloves and posted my first reply ever on TGP 'cause I was fed up! Big Mike - did you register for this forum due to that thread? Boy did my comments cause a stir....met a cool guy from Ottawa in the process - Marc Roy - a Carol Ann amp owner.

Also, a Joe-basher, Damian1, got into it with a guy, Witchita, a Joe B supporter, and said something like..."post some clips of YOU playing..."

Well, Witchita did....IT WAS LANCE KELTNER. Ahhh it was a thing of beauty.

F@#K Dumbles...

They are just another amp.  As seen on youtube some people can make them sound good and others make them sound like crap.

Same with Vox, Fender, Marshall, Two Rock, ect...

They are no better an amp then any other brand its all about whos playing it.  This conversation is stupid. Joe has a right to say anything he wants on his forum or on TGP or on stage or on youtube.  People need to spend more time off the internet and more time playing their F-ing guitars...

For Gods sake the one example of Dumble playing a Dumble he sounded like crap.  So what does he know?

really???

If it means anything I put the symbols in myself to show my compassion for the sensitive folks here.

This isnt a conversation about tone.. Its a conversation about the most over hyped and priced amp in history.

Problem is, it pigeonholes and cliche's the good TGP members, that arent blind sheep like that.

That's what drives me nuts. THe forum I put a lot of time into gets judged by a few people that get rabid over a certain topic.

It's not a question of dumble verses Marshall or anything like that. All I did was state a opinion on a amp. I feel bad for Peter because I've gone on record calling his prized real dumble a fake. It was not my intention to tinkle on the creative campfire.  I wouldn't refinance the homestead for one. But that's just me. I think the Carol Ann's and Van Weelden's are fantastic. There will always be debate. My issue is when it becomes personal. Over what? A modded Fender Showman? That's essentially what Dumble amps are in my eyes. A brilliant mod though. Let the gear page be and maybe they will return the favor. My mom is retired now and she can be brutal to the online haters. Nobody wants it to come to that. 
Joe B.

Joe, you're gonna have them all dashing after Fender Showman's now! Ha ha!